Saturday, October 25, 2008

Androgyny Study Based on Sandra Bem's work (Intellectual Androgyny)

I discovered while taking a course in Human Relations at SFSU in the Masters in Public Administration program that I am "androgynous." Not that you can't tell that I am a woman by looking at me, but rather that my brain operates successfully in areas considered both male and female. It is an advantage in life, as explained below.

The Measurement of Psychological Androgyny

Sandra L Bem (1974)

Bem views Androgyny to mean both highly masculine and highly feminine, rather than neither masculine nor feminine (i.e. midway between the two extremes).

It's better to be androgynous in today's society as men and women need to be adaptable, and willing to share all types of jobs, without saying that one job is woman's work or another job is just for men.


The final inventory consists of three groups of 20 items. The three groups being Masculine, Feminine and Neutral.

Selection of items

Two Hundred personality traits that were masculine or feminine, but were neutral in social desirability were chosen by Bem and some of her students. Likewise a further 200 personality traits that were either socially desirable or socially undesirable were chosen. These traits had to apply equally to both males and females.

One Hundred students then rated these traits by answering the following question format: "In American society, how desirable is it for a man to be truthful?". Half of the students (50) were asked about men, and half were asked about women. There was an equal number of men and women in both groups. {Note the word 'truthful' was replaced with all the other 399 trait words in turn.}. The scale used was 1 = not at all desirable, 7 = extremely desirable. Only items that were judged to be significantly more desirable for one gender than the other were considered for inclusion in the inventory (BSRI). Both male and female judges had to agree. Likewise, neutral items were those that were judged to be neither masculine nor feminine, by judges of both genders. The twenty most 'feminine' traits, the twenty most 'masculine' traits, the ten most neutral (for gender) undesirable traits and the ten most neutral desirable traits make up the BSRI (Bem Sex Role Inventory).

Note the good methodology. Bem uses male and female judges in equal proportions. Both have to agree. Four Hundred potential traits are cut down to 60. So plenty of items were considered. One Hundred judges should overcome the problem of having a biased sample. However, note the judges were university undergraduates. This means most were between the ages of 18 and 21. Note also how Bem ensures she has a test with face validity, because the items are selected on their face value in the first place! You might be tempted to criticise Bem's sentence that is used by the judges. The sentence does ask for a judgement of desirability. This could lead to subjects giving high masculinity ratings and high femininity ratings. In turn this would lead to a low androgyny score (which means highly androgynous). If this is so experimenter bias has taken place. Bem would demonstrate that androgyny is more prevalent than it really is. Bem did find from her normative data (see below), that although social desirability (as determined from her 'neutral' items) correlated with masculinity and femininity, it did not correlate with androgyny.


The actual inventory used to appear here but I have been asked to remove the inventory by the copyright owners. 

(NB--There is an androgyny test at .  I score 90% masculine and 73% feminine.  I am a heterosexual female who delights in keeping up my nail polish and other feminine froufrous, and am in appearance quite feminine.  No, I will not link you to my results or my profile, unless you are a single man living in the Bay area and interested in dating a polymath.  OKCUPID is free, fun, and full of geeks and nerds.)

Number the adjectives with a number from 1 to 7, reflecting the degree to which you think the adjective applies to you.

1 Means always or almost always untrue

7 means always or almost always true.

4 means half true and half untrue.

Try to use all the numbers in the scale.

The scale is supposed to be scored by using an inferential statistical test (the t test, but you don't have to know anything about this test!). The t value, derived from the test, represents the difference in assessment between the masculine and feminine items. For simplicity the androgyny score can be defined as the average feminine rating minus the average masculine rating. Note that it is a little confusing because a low androgyny score means that the subject is highly androgynous, and vice versa.

Bem has built into her scale a check to see whether it is likely the subject is simply trying to give a favourable impression of themselves. If the ten socially desirable 'neutral' items are given high ratings, and the ten socially undesirable 'neutral' items are given low ratings, then it is likely the subject is trying to give a good impression of themselves. Another advantage of the neutral items is that it helps to pad out the inventory somewhat; This reduces demand characteristics. Subjects will be less aware of which category each item belongs to.

Normative Data.

It is important to collect normative data from a large number of subjects, so that an average score and standard deviation can be obtained for each dimension of the scale (that is masculinity, femininity, androgyny and Social Desirability. Only by comparison to others can an individual's score have any meaning. For example, an IQ score of 100 is meaningless, unless you know that the average IQ score is also 100. Students, mostly between the ages of 16 and 21 were used; 444 male and 279 female students from Stanford University, and 117 male and 77 female students from Foothill Junior college. This may mean that the normative data might only apply to this age group. Perhaps more pertinently, the students of this time (1974) would probably have held different values from those students of today. Would students of today rate 'conventional' as socially undesirable? If your teacher is over 40, ask them to describe what it was like in the seventies! Additionally, these were Americans; How would British students rate the BSRI? Would they see 'aggression' as a desirable masculine trait, for example?


social desirability

Bem found that although there was a high correlation between masculinity or femininity and social desirability, there was no correlation between androgyny and social desirability. This shows that the inventory is measuring something other than social desirability.


Twenty-Eight males and 28 females are retested after an interval of four weeks. High correlations are found for Femininity, Masculinity, Androgyny and Social Desirability.

Split-Half or internal Consistency

For both samples (Stanford and Foothill), half of the Femininity items correlated with the remaining half. The same goes for Masculinity, Androgyny and Social Desirability.


Face validity

Because the trait items were thought to be desirable for either men or women by 100 judges, one could say that face validity was built into the BSRI. It is a pity that the judges were not asked to judge the 'neutral' traits for social desirability. Those traits that fell half-way between masculine and feminine were used for the social desirability scale. It was the initial selectors (Bem and Students) who decided upon whether the items were desirable or not. Can we be sure about the social desirability of traits such as 'unpredictable' or 'conventional'?

Content Validity

The items on the test were not studied.

Criterion-Related Validity


Bem did not try to find out whether each person was in real life as the BSRI predicted. Are highly androgynous men happy to change a baby's nappies?


Bem would have had to wait to see whether all of her androgynous people were successful in life. Bem felt that it was best to be androgynous, as one could be more adaptable to the demands of modern life. Perhaps it is now the time to test for predictive reliability! How would you go about that?

Correlations with the other measures of masculinity-femininity

The BSRI results were compared against results obtained from the California psychological inventory and the Guilford-Zimmerman temperament survey. There was no correlation between the BSRI and the Guilford-Zimmerman scale and only a moderate correlation between the BSRI and the California psychological inventory. This suggests that Bem is measuring something different from the other personality tests.

Read the study at the link above, and see other source material.

Wednesday, October 15, 2008

A Breath of Fresh Air! The Green Collar Economy

by Deborah Lake

How refreshing to hear an impassioned speaker who tells you the truth about a problem, and then gives you some ideas what to do to make things right, and on top of that, makes you feel as though you are supported in your work.  That's Van Jones.

I met Van Jones again tonight.  He and Mayor Newsome called us together tonight to tell us about Van's new book, Green for All.  Van spoke at an event at my law school a few years back, and I thought to myself, I like that guy.  He made us all feel smarter, and more powerful, and gave us a chin up. 

Van spoke at the new Academy of Sciences in Golden Gate Park.  2 1/2 acres of the building roof are ALIVE!  The roof is a habitat for flora and fauna.  I shall return soon to admire and investigate.

Green for All is the name of his newest public interest organization.  Van has a gift for seeing through all the muck surrounding a problem, isolating the major causes, and implementing practical solutions.  He has founded or help to found several nonprofit organizations that solve problems at the neighborhood and local level.  These models have been successfully implemented across the nation. 

Green for All has one solution for two problems:  there are jobs available right now in a critical infrastructure area; energy conservation, and the US needs jobs.  So, let's roll up our sleeves and work together! 

I purchased the book The Green Collar Economy: How One Solution Can Fix Our Two Biggest Problems tonight and got to talk to Van tonight!  Please  vist Green for All  and watch his video and BUY THE BOOK.  You will thank me. 

Affiliated organizations:

I urge you to support Green for All.  Organizations such as this will help us clear the way to a healthy community, state, and nation full of fresh air, clean water, and pure sunshine.

Roll out the Sarah Palin!

Sarah Palin Anti-Christ: Hey Oz


Ozymandias_kzx: where are ya?

Sarah Palin Anti-Christ: nowheres

Sarah Palin Anti-Christ: just got here

Sarah Palin Anti-Christ: I rolled out "sarah palin" tonight at a mayoral event

Sarah Palin Anti-Christ: let me get my headphones hooked up\

Sarah Palin Anti-Christ: 1

Alert: Ozymandias_kzx is muted and Ozymandias_kzx cannot hear you now

Alert: Ozymandias_kzx is unmuted and Ozymandias_kzx can hear you now


Sarah Palin Anti-Christ: Yeah, I felt that last night

Sarah Palin Anti-Christ: there was nothing about helping corporations

Ozymandias_kzx: Cool


Ozymandias_kzx: Yes

Ozymandias_kzx: you will be safe to vote for Nader in cali this time


Sarah Palin Anti-Christ: I LOVE RALPH

Alert: Ozymandias_kzx has started their webcam

Alert: Ozymandias_kzx has stopped their webcam

Sarah Palin Anti-Christ: ok oz

Sarah Palin Anti-Christ: will do and I will look up van jones

Sarah Palin Anti-Christ: haha

Sarah Palin Anti-Christ: night

Monday, October 6, 2008

The Proposed Iranian Oil Bourse

I encountered this article in March of 2007 and sent to to everyone I knew. It clarifies the relationship between American capital, financial policy, and oil interests as well as I have ever seen it explained.
~ Deborah

The Proposed Iranian Oil Bourse
by Krassimir Petrov
I. Economics of Empires

A nation-state taxes its own citizens, while an empire taxes other nation-states. The history of empires, from Greek and Roman, to Ottoman and British, teaches that the economic foundation of every single empire is the taxation of other nations. The imperial ability to tax has always rested on a better and stronger economy, and as a consequence, a better and stronger military. One part of the subject taxes went to improve the living standards of the empire; the other part went to strengthen the military dominance necessary to enforce the collection of those taxes.

Historically, taxing the subject state has been in various forms—usually gold and silver, where those were considered money, but also slaves, soldiers, crops, cattle, or other agricultural and natural resources, whatever economic goods the empire demanded and the subject-state could deliver. Historically, imperial taxation has always been direct: the subject state handed over the economic goods directly to the empire.

For the first time in history, in the twentieth century, America was able to tax the world indirectly, through inflation. It did not enforce the direct payment of taxes like all of its predecessor empires did, but distributed instead its own fiat currency, the U.S. Dollar, to other nations in exchange for goods with the intended consequence of inflating and devaluing those dollars and paying back later each dollar with less economic goods—the difference capturing the U.S. imperial tax. Here is how this happened.

Early in the 20th century, the U.S. economy began to dominate the world economy. The U.S. dollar was tied to gold, so that the value of the dollar neither increased, nor decreased, but remained the same amount of gold. The Great Depression, with its preceding inflation from 1921 to 1929 and its subsequent ballooning government deficits, had substantially increased the amount of currency in circulation, and thus rendered the backing of U.S. dollars by gold impossible. This led Roosevelt to decouple the dollar from gold in 1932. Up to this point, the U.S. may have well dominated the world economy, but from an economic point of view, it was not an empire. The fixed value of the dollar did not allow the Americans to extract economic benefits from other countries by supplying them with dollars convertible to gold.

Economically, the American Empire was born with Bretton Woods in 1945. The U.S. dollar was not fully convertible to gold, but was made convertible to gold only to foreign governments. This established the dollar as the reserve currency of the world. It was possible, because during WWII, the United States had supplied its allies with provisions, demanding gold as payment, thus accumulating significant portion of the world’s gold. An Empire would not have been possible if, following the Bretton Woods arrangement, the dollar supply was kept limited and within the availability of gold, so as to fully exchange back dollars for gold. However, the guns-and-butter policy of the 1960’s was an imperial one: the dollar supply was relentlessly increased to finance Vietnam and LBJ’s Great Society. Most of those dollars were handed over to foreigners in exchange for economic goods, without the prospect of buying them back at the same value. The increase in dollar holdings of foreigners via persistent U.S. trade deficits was tantamount to a tax—the classical inflation tax that a country imposes on its own citizens, this time around an inflation tax that U.S. imposed on rest of the world.

When in 1970-1971 foreigners demanded payment for their dollars in gold, The U.S. Government defaulted on its payment on August 15, 1971. While the popular spin told the story of “severing the link between the dollar and gold”, in reality the denial to pay back in gold was an act of bankruptcy by the U.S. Government. Essentially, the U.S. declared itself an Empire. It had extracted an enormous amount of economic goods from the rest of the world, with no intention or ability to return those goods, and the world was powerless to respond— the world was taxed and it could not do anything about it.

From that point on, to sustain the American Empire and to continue to tax the rest of the world, the United States had to force the world to continue to accept ever-depreciating dollars in exchange for economic goods and to have the world hold more and more of those depreciating dollars. It had to give the world an economic reason to hold them, and that reason was oil.

In 1971, as it became clearer and clearer that the U.S Government would not be able to buy back its dollars in gold, it made in 1972-73 an iron-clad arrangement with Saudi Arabia to support the power of the House of Saud in exchange for accepting only U.S. dollars for its oil. The rest of OPEC was to follow suit and also accept only dollars. Because the world had to buy oil from the Arab oil countries, it had the reason to hold dollars as payment for oil. Because the world needed ever increasing quantities of oil at ever increasing oil prices, the world’s demand for dollars could only increase. Even though dollars could no longer be exchanged for gold, they were now exchangeable for oil.

The economic essence of this arrangement was that the dollar was now backed by oil. As long as that was the case, the world had to accumulate increasing amounts of dollars, because they needed those dollars to buy oil. As long as the dollar was the only acceptable payment for oil, its dominance in the world was assured, and the American Empire could continue to tax the rest of the world. If, for any reason, the dollar lost its oil backing, the American Empire would cease to exist. Thus, Imperial survival dictated that oil be sold only for dollars. It also dictated that oil reserves were spread around various sovereign states that weren’t strong enough, politically or militarily, to demand payment for oil in something else. If someone demanded a different payment, he had to be convinced, either by political pressure or military means, to change his mind.

The man that actually did demand Euro for his oil was Saddam Hussein in 2000. At first, his demand was met with ridicule, later with neglect, but as it became clearer that he meant business, political pressure was exerted to change his mind. When other countries, like Iran, wanted payment in other currencies, most notably Euro and Yen, the danger to the dollar was clear and present, and a punitive action was in order. Bush’s Shock-and-Awe in Iraq was not about Saddam’s nuclear capabilities, about defending human rights, about spreading democracy, or even about seizing oil fields; it was about defending the dollar, ergo the American Empire. It was about setting an example that anyone who demanded payment in currencies other than U.S. Dollars would be likewise punished.

Many have criticized Bush for staging the war in Iraq in order to seize Iraqi oil fields. However, those critics can’t explain why Bush would want to seize those fields—he could simply print dollars for nothing and use them to get all the oil in the world that he needs. He must have had some other reason to invade Iraq.

History teaches that an empire should go to war for one of two reasons: (1) to defend itself or (2) benefit from war; if not, as Paul Kennedy illustrates in his magisterial The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers, a military overstretch will drain its economic resources and precipitate its collapse. Economically speaking, in order for an empire to initiate and conduct a war, its benefits must outweigh its military and social costs. Benefits from Iraqi oil fields are hardly worth the long-term, multi-year military cost. Instead, Bush must have went into Iraq to defend his Empire. Indeed, this is the case: two months after the United States invaded Iraq, the Oil for Food Program was terminated, the Iraqi Euro accounts were switched back to dollars, and oil was sold once again only for U.S. dollars. No longer could the world buy oil from Iraq with Euro. Global dollar supremacy was once again restored. Bush descended victoriously from a fighter jet and declared the mission accomplished—he had successfully defended the U.S. dollar, and thus the American Empire.

II. Iranian Oil Bourse

The Iranian government has finally developed the ultimate “nuclear” weapon that can swiftly destroy the financial system underpinning the American Empire. That weapon is the Iranian Oil Bourse slated to open in March 2006. It will be based on a euro-oil-trading mechanism that naturally implies payment for oil in Euro. In economic terms, this represents a much greater threat to the hegemony of the dollar than Saddam’s, because it will allow anyone willing either to buy or to sell oil for Euro to transact on the exchange, thus circumventing the U.S. dollar altogether. If so, then it is likely that almost everyone will eagerly adopt this euro oil system:

· The Europeans will not have to buy and hold dollars in order to secure their payment for oil, but would instead pay with their own currencies. The adoption of the euro for oil transactions will provide the European currency with a reserve status that will benefit the European at the expense of the Americans.

· The Chinese and the Japanese will be especially eager to adopt the new exchange, because it will allow them to drastically lower their enormous dollar reserves and diversify with Euros, thus protecting themselves against the depreciation of the dollar. One portion of their dollars they will still want to hold onto; a second portion of their dollar holdings they may decide to dump outright; a third portion of their dollars they will decide to use up for future payments without replenishing those dollar holdings, but building up instead their euro reserves.

· The Russians have inherent economic interest in adopting the Euro – the bulk of their trade is with European countries, with oil-exporting countries, with China, and with Japan. Adoption of the Euro will immediately take care of the first two blocs, and will over time facilitate trade with China and Japan. Also, the Russians seemingly detest holding depreciating dollars, for they have recently found a new religion with gold. Russians have also revived their nationalism, and if embracing the Euro will stab the Americans, they will gladly do it and smugly watch the Americans bleed.

· The Arab oil-exporting countries will eagerly adopt the Euro as a means of diversifying against rising mountains of depreciating dollars. Just like the Russians, their trade is mostly with European countries, and therefore will prefer the European currency both for its stability and for avoiding currency risk, not to mention their jihad against the Infidel Enemy.

Only the British will find themselves between a rock and a hard place. They have had a strategic partnership with the U.S. forever, but have also had their natural pull from Europe. So far, they have had many reasons to stick with the winner. However, when they see their century-old partner falling, will they firmly stand behind him or will they deliver the coup de grace? Still, we should not forget that currently the two leading oil exchanges are the New York’s NYMEX and the London’s International Petroleum Exchange (IPE), even though both of them are effectively owned by the Americans. It seems more likely that the British will have to go down with the sinking ship, for otherwise they will be shooting themselves in the foot by hurting their own London IPE interests. It is here noteworthy that for all the rhetoric about the reasons for the surviving British Pound, the British most likely did not adopt the Euro namely because the Americans must have pressured them not to: otherwise the London IPE would have had to switch to Euros, thus mortally wounding the dollar and their strategic partner.

At any rate, no matter what the British decide, should the Iranian Oil Bourse accelerate, the interests that matter—those of Europeans, Chinese, Japanese, Russians, and Arabs—will eagerly adopt the Euro, thus sealing the fate of the dollar. Americans cannot allow this to happen, and if necessary, will use a vast array of strategies to halt or hobble the operation’s exchange:

· Sabotaging the Exchange—this could be a computer virus, network, communications, or server attack, various server security breaches, or a 9-11-type attack on main and backup facilities.

· Coup d’état—this is by far the best long-term strategy available to the Americans.

· Negotiating Acceptable Terms & Limitations—this is another excellent solution to the Americans. Of course, a government coup is clearly the preferred strategy, for it will ensure that the exchange does not operate at all and does not threaten American interests. However, if an attempted sabotage or coup d’etat fails, then negotiation is clearly the second-best available option.

· Joint U.N. War Resolution—this will be, no doubt, hard to secure given the interests of all other member-states of the Security Council. Feverish rhetoric about Iranians developing nuclear weapons undoubtedly serves to prepare this course of action.

· Unilateral Nuclear Strike—this is a terrible strategic choice for all the reasons associated with the next strategy, the Unilateral Total War. The Americans will likely use Israel to do their dirty nuclear job.

· Unilateral Total War—this is obviously the worst strategic choice. First, the U.S. military resources have been already depleted with two wars. Secondly, the Americans will further alienate other powerful nations. Third, major dollar-holding countries may decide to quietly retaliate by dumping their own mountains of dollars, thus preventing the U.S. from further financing its militant ambitions. Finally, Iran has strategic alliances with other powerful nations that may trigger their involvement in war; Iran reputedly has such alliance with China, India, and Russia, known as the Shanghai Cooperative Group, a.k.a. Shanghai Coop and a separate pact with Syria.

Whatever the strategic choice, from a purely economic point of view, should the Iranian Oil Bourse gain momentum, it will be eagerly embraced by major economic powers and will precipitate the demise of the dollar. The collapsing dollar will dramatically accelerate U.S. inflation and will pressure upward U.S. long-term interest rates. At this point, the Fed will find itself between Scylla and Charybdis—between deflation and hyperinflation—it will be forced fast either to take its “classical medicine” by deflating, whereby it raises interest rates, thus inducing a major economic depression, a collapse in real estate, and an implosion in bond, stock, and derivative markets, with a total financial collapse, or alternatively, to take the Weimar way out by inflating, whereby it pegs the long-bond yield, raises the Helicopters and drowns the financial system in liquidity, bailing out numerous LTCMs and hyperinflating the economy.

The Austrian theory of money, credit, and business cycles teaches us that there is no in-between Scylla and Charybdis. Sooner or later, the monetary system must swing one way or the other, forcing the Fed to make its choice. No doubt, Commander-in-Chief Ben Bernanke, a renowned scholar of the Great Depression and an adept Black Hawk pilot, will choose inflation. Helicopter Ben, oblivious to Rothbard’s America’s Great Depression, has nonetheless mastered the lessons of the Great Depression and the annihilating power of deflations. The Maestro has taught him the panacea of every single financial problem—to inflate, come hell or high water. He has even taught the Japanese his own ingenious unconventional ways to battle the deflationary liquidity trap. Like his mentor, he has dreamed of battling a Kondratieff Winter. To avoid deflation, he will resort to the printing presses; he will recall all helicopters from the 800 overseas U.S. military bases; and, if necessary, he will monetize everything in sight. His ultimate accomplishment will be the hyperinflationary destruction of the American currency and from its ashes will rise the next reserve currency of the world—that barbarous relic called gold.


Recommended Reading
William Clark “The Real Reasons for the Upcoming War in Iraq”
William Clark “The Real Reasons Why Iran is the Next Target”

About the Author
Krassimir Petrov ( has received his Ph. D. in economics from the Ohio State University and currently teaches Macroeconomics, International Finance, and Econometrics at the American University in Bulgaria. He is looking for a career in Dubai or the U. A. E.

Also by this author
“China’s Great Depression”
“Masters of Austrian Investment Analysis”
“Austrian Analysis of U.S. Inflation”
“Oil Performance in a Worldwide Depression”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Editorial Notes ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
An excellent and thought provoking article by Krassimir Petrov!

However, I think perhaps it's not entirely correct to state that "critics can’t explain why Bush would want to seize those fields." The Bush regime are probably aiming to set themselves up as policeman of the Middle East oil fields, 'protecting' oil supply to Asia and Europe in return for various advantages at any future negotiation tables. Meanwhile billions of dollars of unaccountable no-bid contracts have been handed to corporations with ties to Bush administration, and the Iraqi oil industry is set to be privatised. So the reasons for the war are rich and varied. However Petrov has given us one of the clearest explanations yet of one of the most important, and certainly least understood, motivations for the war.


Sunday, October 5, 2008

Between Two Worlds: Review

Between Two Worlds: Escape from Tyranny: Growing Up in the Shadow of Saddam
(2005: Gotham Books)

Zainab Salbi and Laurie Becklund

by Deborah Lake

“...a personal intimate look at the soul-crushing impact of Hussein's Iraq...Now, with her chilling memoir, the lies end.” The Washington Post

“More can be learned about Iraq from this book than from all the newscasts.” Alice Walker
“...exquisite and painful...” Ellen Chesler

Zainab Salbi lived a peaceful and privileged childhood in Baghdad. Then, her father was chosen to be Saddam's personal pilot. She explains the dramatic and drastic changes wrought upon her parents, and indeed all of Iraq, by Hussein's megalomania.

I don't want to toss in a spoiler, but let me say this. Saddam's sons were notorious rapists. They learned it at their father's knee.

Saddam also “rebuilt” the hanging gardens of Babylon. That is to say, he destroyed them, and rebuilt them with bricks bearing his name.

The Iraqis are certainly worse off under US invasion and occupation than they were under Hussein. That does not excuse the fact that Hussein was a psychopathic monster who inflicted two generations worth of horror upon his people. It was JUST FINE with the USA, as long as he was OUR psychopathic monster.

Zainab was approximately eleven years old when her Bibi was tapped to serve as Hussein's pilot. Hussein drew people into relationships against their will then used any means possible to keep them at heel. This destructive power eventually ended her parents' marriage, which seemed quite happy to her as a child.

Families were ripped asunder. Anyone suspected of having “Persian” blood was deported. It mattered not the truth of their ancestry.

“My parents had zero interest in politics....because both schools and airlines were parents had to join the Baath Party like most Iraqis just to hold a job. There were several levels of membership...everyone came to know the difference between getting along and being a true believer. The entry level, endorser, was the least you could get away with...Later, of course, it became clear to us all that to rise in the ranks of the Baath Party, you had to write reports on other people, in other words, become a spy.”

Zainab's co-author, Laurie Beckland, captures Zainab's guileless narration of life under Hussein, and the horrors she endured both in Iraq, and when it became clear that she was in danger, after her arrival in the USA.

After her recovery, she founded the charity Women for Women International, which is one of the smartest and sanest charities I have encountered. Not only does the organization provide direct help for women and their children in war zones, they educate men in women's rights. A pilot project in the Congo has yielded amazing results. Families now go from door to door, talking about their new happiness, now that the men know that they do not have to brutalize their wives.

I co-sponsor an Afghani woman. She has not written to me yet, but we can write a letter a month. The only constraints on correspondence occur because of the limited time of volunteer translators.

Saturday, September 20, 2008

Republicans are more prejudiced than Democrats (Gasp!);_ylt=AqY883u_2NbyZUYYDi_2PEMGw_IE

This election is still close, not because McCain is a good candidate, but because white people harbor irrational prejudices against african-americans.  The Republican Party is well-defined by its prejudice.

Poll: Racial views steer some white Dems away from Obama

By RON FOURNIER and TREVOR TOMPSON, Associated Press Writers
WASHINGTON (AP) — Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent," responsible for their own troubles.
The poll, conducted with Stanford University, suggests that the percentage of voters who may turn away from Obama because of his race could easily be larger than the final difference between the candidates in 2004 — about two and one-half percentage points.
Certainly, Republican John McCain has his own obstacles: He's an ally of an unpopular president and would be the nation's oldest first-term president. But Obama faces this: 40 percent of all white Americans hold at least a partly negative view toward blacks, and that includes many Democrats and independents.
Adjectives that describe blacks
More than a third of all white Democrats and independents — voters Obama can't win the White House without — agreed with at least one negative adjective about blacks, according to the survey, and they are significantly less likely to vote for Obama than those who don't have such views.
Such numbers are a harsh dose of reality in a campaign for the history books. Obama, the first black candidate with a serious shot at the presidency, accepted the Democratic nomination on the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech, a seminal moment for a nation that enshrined slavery in its Constitution.
"There are a lot fewer bigots than there were 50 years ago, but that doesn't mean there's only a few bigots," said Stanford political scientist Paul Sniderman who helped analyze the exhaustive survey.
The pollsters set out to determine why Obama is locked in a close race with McCain even as the political landscape seems to favor Democrats. President Bush's unpopularity, the Iraq war and a national sense of economic hard times cut against GOP candidates, as does that fact that Democratic voters outnumber Republicans.
The findings suggest that Obama's problem is close to home — among his fellow Democrats, particularly non-Hispanic white voters. Just seven in 10 people who call themselves Democrats support Obama, compared to the 85 percent of self-identified Republicans who back McCain.
The survey also focused on the racial attitudes of independent voters because they are likely to decide the election.
Lots of Republicans harbor prejudices, too, but the survey found they weren't voting against Obama because of his race. Most Republicans wouldn't vote for any Democrat for president — white, black or brown.
Not all whites are prejudiced. Indeed, more whites say good things about blacks than say bad things, the poll shows. And many whites who see blacks in a negative light are still willing or even eager to vote for Obama.
On the other side of the racial question, the Illinois Democrat is drawing almost unanimous support from blacks, the poll shows, though that probably wouldn't be enough to counter the negative effect of some whites' views.
Race is not the biggest factor driving Democrats and independents away from Obama. Doubts about his competency loom even larger, the poll indicates. More than a quarter of all Democrats expressed doubt that Obama can bring about the change they want, and they are likely to vote against him because of that.
Three in 10 of those Democrats who don't trust Obama's change-making credentials say they plan to vote for McCain.
Still, the effects of whites' racial views are apparent in the polling.
Statistical models derived from the poll suggest that Obama's support would be as much as 6 percentage points higher if there were no white racial prejudice.
But in an election without precedent, it's hard to know if such models take into account all the possible factors at play.
The AP-Yahoo News poll used the unique methodology of Knowledge Networks, a Menlo Park, Calif., firm that interviews people online after randomly selecting and screening them over telephone. Numerous studies have shown that people are more likely to report embarrassing behavior and unpopular opinions when answering questions on a computer rather than talking to a stranger.
Other techniques used in the poll included recording people's responses to black or white faces flashed on a computer screen, asking participants to rate how well certain adjectives apply to blacks, measuring whether people believe blacks' troubles are their own fault, and simply asking people how much they like or dislike blacks.
"We still don't like black people," said John Clouse, 57, reflecting the sentiments of his pals gathered at a coffee shop in Somerset, Ohio.
Given a choice of several positive and negative adjectives that might describe blacks, 20 percent of all whites said the word "violent" strongly applied. Among other words, 22 percent agreed with "boastful," 29 percent "complaining," 13 percent "lazy" and 11 percent "irresponsible." When asked about positive adjectives, whites were more likely to stay on the fence than give a strongly positive assessment.
Among white Democrats, one third cited a negative adjective and, of those, 58 percent said they planned to back Obama.
The poll sought to measure latent prejudices among whites by asking about factors contributing to the state of black America. One finding: More than a quarter of white Democrats agree that "if blacks would only try harder, they could be just as well off as whites."
Those who agreed with that statement were much less likely to back Obama than those who didn't.
Among white independents, racial stereotyping is not uncommon. For example, while about 20 percent of independent voters called blacks "intelligent" or "smart," more than one third latched on the adjective "complaining" and 24 percent said blacks were "violent."
Nearly four in 10 white independents agreed that blacks would be better off if they "try harder."
The survey broke ground by incorporating images of black and white faces to measure implicit racial attitudes, or prejudices that are so deeply rooted that people may not realize they have them. That test suggested the incidence of racial prejudice is even higher, with more than half of whites revealing more negative feelings toward blacks than whites.
Researchers used mathematical modeling to sort out the relative impact of a huge swath of variables that might have an impact on people's votes — including race, ideology, party identification, the hunger for change and the sentiments of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's backers.
Just 59 percent of her white Democratic supporters said they wanted Obama to be president. Nearly 17 percent of Clinton's white backers plan to vote for McCain.
Among white Democrats, Clinton supporters were nearly twice as likely as Obama backers to say at least one negative adjective described blacks well, a finding that suggests many of her supporters in the primaries — particularly whites with high school education or less — were motivated in part by racial attitudes.
The survey of 2,227 adults was conducted Aug. 27 to Sept. 5. It has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2.1 percentage points.
Associated Press writers Nancy Benac, Julie Carr Smyth, Philip Elliot, Julie Pace and Sonya Ross contributed to this story.

Denial is Not An Economic Recovery Plan

It's time to DEMAND OUR RIGHTS as citizens and taxpayers. No more privatized solutions to public policy crises! Holy cow! How many economic catastrophes due to deregulation and privatization is the American taxpayer supposed to cure? Now, the Bush administration wants to "privatize" the "cure".

They say that they do not want to create a new agency to oversee this new bailout. Rather, they want to hire "contractors" who are unaccountable to taxpayers to allegedly straighten out this terrifying market meltdown.

Let me refresh your memory!

Chrysler Bailout 1970s

Savings and Loan Crisis 1980s

Junk Bond Crisis 1990s

Enron/WorldCom Crisis 2000s

Subprime Mortgage Crisis 2000s

Auto Industry Bailout 2008

We are STILL PAYING THE BILLS for these scams. Every time they "deregulate" or "privatize" a function related to the general welfare of US citizens and by extension the rest of the world, a few people rake off Billions of dollars, and we and our progeny pay through the nose.

We can't have decent schools, decent election systems, or decent social supports for the people who fall on hard times because of these corporate scams.

It's downright uncivilized, and outright theft of the national public goods. Stop them from "privatizing" again!
About Economy
Read the Article at HuffingtonPost

The Sherman Anti-Trust Act, Mincemeat, & c.


This is chat room dialog, abridged only to remove the most boring parts. In some places, it will seem like the conversation is flowing backwards, because of the nature of chatrooms. This chat room is also a voice room, so some comments will not appear to relate to the text at times. Stick with it a bit! I am thephoenix_ ~Deb

(11:50 PM) Alert: This is an R rated room inappropriate for minors. Adult language is permitted, however nudity is not.
(11:50 PM) Alert: thephoenix_, welcome to the room Democratic Party United.
(11:50 PM) Lewet-Felagiw: I hope Obama won't fall in their trap.
(11:50 PM) ellej28: Well Obama will go into a battle of wits with an unarmed man in McCain
(11:50 PM) Lewet-Felagiw: Good
thephoenix_: I think that Obama's pulled out of the game.
(11:50 PM) daddy_o: Oh McCain knows he's gonna get his ass handed to him if he debates OBama
thephoenix_: He would have caved to McCain if he hadn't.
(11:50 PM) daddy_o: thats McCain is stalling
(11:50 PM) daddy_o: thats why
thephoenix_: The gloves are off.
(11:51 PM) *** chuck3000 has joined the room ***
(11:51 PM) Lewet-Felagiw: lol stinkbowski
thephoenix_: Biden made mincemeat out of McCain today.
(11:51 PM) Barbara Ann1026: nite everyone you are in very good hands
(11:51 PM) jimer123: I wanted McCain come unglue Friday
(11:51 PM) ellej28: Well McCain ran his mouth with all this BS and now he can't back it up.
(11:51 PM) daddy_o: Look they wont even let Palin do an interview
(11:51 PM) stinkbowski: Love how Bush talks about success in Iraq...Iraq never was the problem..It was Bin Laden...
(11:51 PM) daddy_o: by herself
(11:51 PM) Lewet-Felagiw: McCain is trying all he can to sink his own boat.
(thephoenix_: He's desperate now.
(11:51 PM) daddy_o: Oh god McCains boat is going down fast
(11:51 PM) *** Barbara Ann1026 has left the room ***
(11:51 PM) *** chuck3000 has left the room ***
(11:51 PM) Lewet-Felagiw: good night B
thephoenix_: thanks, just!
(11:51 PM) ellej28: Thank you
(11:51 PM) daddy_o: thats why he's doing all this stuff
(11:52 PM) daddy_o: he has to pull something out of his a**
thephoenix_: LOL
(11:52 PM) *** imalive has joined the room ***
(11:52 PM) ellej28: I never ever want a hat again........sheesh
(11:52 PM) Lewet-Felagiw: I didn't say it.
(11:53 PM) DesignedbyM: I like my woman to stay in the kitchen.
(11:53 PM) DesignedbyM: ok
thephoenix_: M, you are a loser.
(11:53 PM) ellej28: Good Luck on that, phoenix.
(11:53 PM) DesignedbyM: A good woman will not leave the house without permission.
thephoenix_: Time to take out the White Trash!
(11:53 PM) dewy00: he is just trying to marter himself and goad Obama into doing something or not doing it to say look all he thinks about is himself and not the country
(11:53 PM) stinkbowski: Remember how Bush tore McCain apart in 2000 Election ??..
(11:53 PM) Lewet-Felagiw: DesignedbyM.... where is ur location ? Saudi Arabia ?
thephoenix_: buh bye, M.
(11:53 PM) jimer123: Youngsters are to be seen and not heard, not grown women
(11:53 PM) daddy_o: oh lord
(11:53 PM) ellej28: Designed are you an Arab
(11:53 PM) daddy_o: this guy is on his own
thephoenix_: I do, stink.
(11:54 PM) ellej28: He is on right after you.
(11:54 PM) Lewet-Felagiw: lol
thephoenix_: I would have been happy had McCain been the Puke nominee in 2000.
(11:54 PM) Lewet-Felagiw: lool
(11:54 PM) ellej28: I don't see a red dot
thephoenix_: When New Hampshire went McCain, I breathed a sigh of relief.
(11:54 PM) ellej28: Oh I see it now
thephoenix_: I thought that Bush was too f***ing stupid to get elected.
(11:55 PM) Lewet-Felagiw: I am having a good time.
(11:55 PM) *** DesignedbyM has left the room ***
thephoenix_: LMAO, surf
(11:55 PM) Lewet-Felagiw: lol
thephoenix_: good, lewet!
(11:55 PM) imalive: yep
thephoenix_: I have a good time here too, and I am only like about 18 in my brain.
(11:55 PM) Lewet-Felagiw: good job Just
(11:55 PM) stinkbowski: Remmber how Bush & Cheney portrayed Gore & Kerry as assholes ??....
(11:55 PM) Lewet-Felagiw: lol
(11:55 PM) ellej28: I would have bitchslapped him. LOL I learned from the best.
thephoenix_: so did the corporate media, stink.
(11:56 PM) daddy_o: yeah but now People see right through all their bullshit
thephoenix_: The media is definitely not liberal.
(11:56 PM) ellej28: yep
thephoenix_: Rather, it is corporate.
thephoenix_: M is just a big chickenshit loser.
thephoenix_: Smart men like smart women.
(11:56 PM) ellej28: The media is controlled by the corporations that own them.
thephoenix_: Dumb men don't like anyone.
(11:56 PM) daddy_o: yes intelligence is good phoenix....thats what i like
thephoenix_: except themselves
(11:56 PM) stinkbowski: phoenix...true..Tried to say Kerry's silver star was phony
(11:57 PM) ellej28: Phoenix.....I was looking for you......I yielded the mic
(11:57 PM) daddy_o: lol
thephoenix_: LOL
thephoenix_: (11:53 PM) ellej28: Good Luck on that, phoenix. LOL.
thephoenix_: elle, my program crashed
(11:57 PM) daddy_o: Hey so what do you guys think of this 700 Billion dollar bail ou
thephoenix_: daddy o, it's just more welfare for the rich
(11:58 PM) *** ProfGene has joined the room ***
thephoenix_: business as usual
(11:58 PM) Just Surfin around: yw hun
(11:58 PM) *** jimer123 has left the room ***
(11:58 PM) stinkbowski: The problem in America is 49% of voters are dumass Right-wing Dittoheads...
thephoenix_: did you know that in murka that we have socialism today?
thephoenix_: Socialism for the rich, socialism for the military.
(11:59 PM) ellej28: Wedge issues
thephoenix_: Everyone else just has to eat shit!
thephoenix_: Palin won her mayor campaign on wedge issues.
thephoenix_: Then she ran the City into the ground.
(11:59 PM) ellej28: Yes but in a very small town.
(11:59 PM) ProfGene: They are going to take our guns away from us. They are taking religion out of everything. They will tax us to death.
(11:59 PM) ellej28: And it wasn't renewed
thephoenix_: That's total bullshit, ProfGene.
(12:00 AM) ellej28: Right
(12:00 AM) ellej28: Nope
(12:00 AM) Just Surfin around: PorfGene who said that?
thephoenix_: Democrats balance the budget when they are in power, and republicans run up the credit card when they are in power.
(12:00 AM) ProfGene: Those are the issues that they run on.
(12:00 AM) ProfGene: I never owned a gun.
(12:00 AM) Just Surfin around: right on ellej
(12:00 AM) stinkbowski: Repubs listen to Rush....The draft dodging college dropout drug addict for advice..
(12:01 AM) Just Surfin around: yes they did ellej
(12:01 AM) ProfGene: I went to school and heard the New Testament read to me every day and I was Jewish.
thephoenix_: The people who whine about their taxes the most are those with the most money.
(12:01 AM) daddy_o: Yeah Rush is a master tea bagger along with his buddy gw bush
thephoenix_: The ones who should be grateful for their luck!
thephoenix_: All big whiners.
(12:01 AM) ProfGene: This was a public grade school in Philadelphia.
thephoenix_: I only have 3 billion dollars! Waaaa!
(12:02 AM) ProfGene: The New Testament and yes Jesus Loves Me.
(12:02 AM) ProfGene: And the Lord's Prayer
thephoenix_: I only have 50 billion dollars! I may be eating supermarket food soon!
thephoenix_: LOL
(12:02 AM) Just Surfin around: lmao yeah right sure.. lol
(12:02 AM) imalive: well gene did it teach you anything lol
thephoenix_: My yacht is too small!
(12:03 AM) dewy00: by getting Palin to get womens votes do they think any woman will do
thephoenix_: wull yeah
(12:03 AM) ProfGene: It taught me that Jews were not welcome in the American public school system in Philadelphia.
thephoenix_: awww
(12:03 AM) *** ADAGIO_5 has joined the room ***
thephoenix_: I love all of my Jewish friends so much.
thephoenix_: They kick ass!
(12:03 AM) Just Surfin around: I woke up with one ellej
(12:04 AM) Just Surfin around: metoo ellej
(12:04 AM) daddy_o: Elle my allergies are kicking up also
thephoenix_: My adopted mother is an 89-year-old Jewish woman.
(12:04 AM) Just Surfin around: Corn fields I am allergic to
(12:04 AM) daddy_o: lol where u at again
thephoenix_: She was first mentioned in a Supreme Court opinion in 1956.
(12:04 AM) stinkbowski: You Know who is another Nazi puke, is that former Dem. that appears on Fox shows...can't think of his name...
(12:04 AM) ADAGIO_5: most claim that but....
thephoenix_: She went on to represent Angela Davis in her murder trial.
(12:05 AM) ProfGene: I lived in Massachussets for 17 years.
thephoenix_: She was the first female President of the National Lawyers Guild.
(12:05 AM) *** victoria_atmosphere has joined the room ***
(12:05 AM) victoria_atmosphere: ty
(12:05 AM) ProfGene: First West Quincy, then Boston, then Randolph, then Boston again, and the last place was Bridgewater.
(12:05 AM) Just Surfin around: I like Illinois
(12:06 AM) ProfGene: That is where I live now in IL
(12:06 AM) *** daddy_o has left the room ***(12:07 AM) *** PSVerHerman has joined the room **
(12:07 AM) Just Surfin around: hi PSV
(12:07 AM) imalive: hi ps
(12:07 AM) PSVerHerman: hello all
(12:07 AM) ellej28: I bookmarked it and will do so on my lunch break
(12:07 AM) stinkbowski: Who is that fat former Dem. that worked for Clinton who is on Fox all the time ??
(12:07 AM) PSVerHerman: i`ve supending the chat because we are in a cricis.......
(12:07 AM) *** ADAGIO_5 has joined the room ***
(12:07 AM) PSVerHerman: hello just
(12:07 AM) ellej28: Absolutely........McCain doesn't have the temperment for being president.
(12:08 AM) PSVerHerman: hey imalive
(12:08 AM) ellej28: Hi PSV
(12:08 AM) ProfGene: Palin has been showing how she knows very little about everything.
(12:08 AM) Lewet-Felagiw: Yes indeed.
(12:08 AM) PSVerHerman: elle my ma girl hello.....
thephoenix_: Palin said that she would get Katie Couric examples of how McCain supported regulation.
(12:08 AM) *** ADAGIO_5 has left the room ***
thephoenix_: After Katie asked her three times.
(12:08 AM) Just Surfin around: we couldn't here we said the Pledge of Allegence
thephoenix_: Sarah said, well, I will get some and bring em to ya!
thephoenix_: LMAO
thephoenix_: Now I know why she had to go to six schools to get her BA.
(12:09 AM) victoria_atmosphere: i had to recite the lord's prayer and both my parents were atheists
(12:09 AM) PSVerHerman: gene are you a atheist like me
(12:09 AM) ellej28: I didn't either.....Catholic schools teach church doctrine
thephoenix_: They found the dumbest/cutest college graduate that they could find.
(12:10 AM) imalive: that never happened to the schools i went too
(12:10 AM) victoria_atmosphere: and god save the queen and who supports the monarchy anymore?
(12:10 AM) victoria_atmosphere: they don't sing it anymore
thephoenix_: Who did not mind lying, cheating, and betraying friends to reach her goal.
(12:10 AM) victoria_atmosphere: thank the lord
(12:10 AM) victoria_atmosphere: haha
(12:10 AM) ellej28: BRB........need water
(12:10 AM) Just Surfin around: ok ellej
(12:10 AM) Just Surfin around: hb
(12:11 AM) victoria_atmosphere: we did the lord's prayer, god save the queen and o canada
(12:11 AM) victoria_atmosphere: then it was time for lunch
(12:11 AM) *** peking duck_1 has joined the room ***
(12:11 AM) PSVerHerman: virginia is a red state.....
(12:12 AM) stinkbowski: All of a sudden, Bush gives us a speech tonight telling us how serious the financial crisis is...blaming everyone but himself...what a Bastard...
(12:12 AM) PSVerHerman: heheh gene
(12:12 AM) imalive: this michael moore new film its the whole film too
(12:12 AM) victoria_atmosphere: is that you flush?
(12:12 AM) victoria_atmosphere: stinkbowski?
(12:12 AM) stinkbowski: no
(12:12 AM) victoria_atmosphere: oh, sorry
(12:13 AM) Just Surfin around: isn't that amazing stinkbowski?
(12:13 AM) PSVerHerman: michael moore.......made some great movies
(12:13 AM) stinkbowski: np
(12:13 AM) victoria_atmosphere: love michael moore
(12:13 AM) Just Surfin around: hey I got the movie of Slackers
(12:13 AM) imalive: ps that will play off web page
(12:13 AM) victoria_atmosphere: it's FREE
(12:13 AM) victoria_atmosphere: thanks michael
(12:13 AM) ellej28: Back
(12:13 AM) PSVerHerman: victora.....hello
(12:13 AM) imalive: its the full ver too
(12:13 AM) Just Surfin around: wb ellej
(12:13 AM) victoria_atmosphere: Hi psverherman
(12:13 AM) PSVerHerman: elle is your husband from MA
(12:13 AM) imalive:
(12:14 AM) ellej28: tks
(12:14 AM) Just Surfin around: yw
(12:14 AM) ellej28: No PSV....he was born, raised and educated in Arkansas
(12:14 AM) *** dewy00 has left the room ***
(12:14 AM) ellej28: I am originally from PA
(12:14 AM) PSVerHerman: ow a bill clinton guy.....LOL
(12:15 AM) imalive: if you have a torrent loader you can down load it free
(12:15 AM) ellej28: PSV....He drove in the caravan while Clinton was president and after he left office.
(12:15 AM) stinkbowski: Bush trying to scare everyone with financial the average taxpayer will bail his rotten ass out....
(12:15 AM) *** Tama Riki has joined the room ***
(12:16 AM) PSVerHerman: i believe your husband and me will get along great LOL
(12:16 AM) *** flynn62 has left the room ***
(12:16 AM) ellej28: He is a pretty nice guy.....has his moments. He isn't too friendly right now but we will see how things turn out.
(12:16 AM) *** NoworNeverComeTogether has joined the room ***
(12:17 AM) Tama Riki: lol
(12:17 AM) imalive: bush too
(12:17 AM) ellej28: I think McCain is mentally irregular...
(12:17 AM) NoworNeverComeTogether: Prof..........bottom of his class?
(12:17 AM) NoworNeverComeTogether: are you kidding?
(12:17 AM) imalive: he was
(12:18 AM) ellej28: He was either 4th or 5th from the bottom
(12:18 AM) NoworNeverComeTogether: Prof............get real
(12:18 AM) PSVerHerman: if Mc cain wins......i believe america could go down coming 4 years......
(12:18 AM) stinkbowski: President Clinton left Bush with a $1.8 trillion surplus..Bush is leaving with a $ 10 trillion deficit..
(12:18 AM) ellej28: He is telling you the truth
(12:18 AM) NoworNeverComeTogether: Prof is that all you have on McCain
(12:18 AM) Tama Riki: That would explain why he crashed so many planes, he's a slow learner
(12:18 AM) Tama Riki: hahahaha
(12:18 AM) NoworNeverComeTogether: Prof?................spend spend spend
(12:18 AM) NoworNeverComeTogether: demos
(12:18 AM) NoworNeverComeTogether: my god
(12:18 AM) ellej28: Hang on, I will give you something to think about.
(12:19 AM) Just Surfin around: NoworNeverComeTogether.... your on thin Ice.... be have in here
(12:19 AM) Tama Riki: Senator Obama was a Community Organizer
(12:19 AM) PSVerHerman: obama is the new JFK mark my judgment
(12:19 AM) NoworNeverComeTogether: spend spend spend
(12:19 AM) NoworNeverComeTogether: my god
(12:19 AM) *** NoworNeverComeTogether has left the room ***
(12:19 AM) stinkbowski: N
(12:19 AM) Tama Riki: hahahahaha
(12:20 AM) ProfGene: I heard that one too
(12:20 AM) ellej28: this
(12:20 AM) PSVerHerman: imalive he lives in 7 houses with which one
(12:20 AM) ProfGene: bomb bomb bomb Iran
(12:20 AM) Tama Riki: Mc Cain was a "Collaborator", during the war
(12:20 AM) ellej28: That link shows Lieberman whispering in his ear that answer
(12:20 AM) stinkbowski: Nowornever...another Right-Wing Nazi with his head up Bush's Ass....
(12:20 AM) Tama Riki: Mc Cain is not liked by the NamVets
(12:21 AM) ellej28: They took the video of Bomb bomb bomb Iran off of Youtube
(12:21 AM) Tama Riki: lol
(12:21 AM) ellej28: Yes....he is his front man
(12:21 AM) *** victoria_atmosphere has left the room ***
(12:22 AM) ellej28: He is a different man (Lieberman) than he was in 2000.
(12:22 AM) Lewet-Felagiw: Good night all
(12:22 AM) ellej28: Nite Lewet
(12:22 AM) Just Surfin around: not before I got it ellej lol
(12:22 AM) *** Lewet-Felagiw has left the room ***
(12:22 AM) PSVerHerman: Lieberman.....didn`t have sex since 2001 that was the reason he turned to be a repbuk sup......
(12:22 AM) ProfGene: You have to know the formula for a quadratic equasion if you want to solve one.
(12:22 AM) ellej28: LOL PSV
(12:23 AM) stinkbowski: Got Fox News on..panelpraising Bush on how well he is handling Financial Collapse...
(12:23 AM) ProfGene: equation
(12:23 AM) Just Surfin around: rotflmao PSV
(12:23 AM) Tama Riki: ellej28 - John Mc Cain and Bomb Bomb Iran, lol
(12:23 AM) ProfGene: Out out damn spot, is this a dagger I see before me all the perfumes of Arabia will not .....
(12:24 AM) ProfGene: They got rid of it but ever since Reagan they have been trying to bring back prayers.
(12:25 AM) ProfGene: This was between 1942 and 45.
(12:25 AM) ellej28: Thanks Tama......I had it bookmarked. blonde is showing. LOL
(12:25 AM) PSVerHerman: if mc cain wins...i`m joining the amish
(12:25 AM) Tama Riki: lol elle
(12:25 AM) Tama Riki: no probs
(12:26 AM) Just Surfin around: lmao PSV
(12:26 AM) ProfGene: The Amish have the right idea. They don't need gas or power.
thephoenix_: LIEberman should have gotten some on the side.
(12:26 AM) PSVerHerman: heheh gene
(12:26 AM) Tama Riki: ProfGene quite right
thephoenix_: The Dems are ready to censure him, 7 years too late.
(12:26 AM) Tama Riki: The Amish lifestyle is fascinating
(12:26 AM) stinkbowski: Remember Bush's Inauguration ?...He had to duck in the car because people were throwing eggs...
thephoenix_: Some eggthrowers went to jail.
thephoenix_: They just won a lawsuit against the District of Columbia
thephoenix_: 8 years later.
(12:27 AM) PSVerHerman: a amish bleu berry
(12:27 AM) imalive: they even had computer cash regester
(12:27 AM) PSVerHerman: blackberry
(12:27 AM) PSVerHerman: hahaha
(12:27 AM) ProfGene: We have plenty of Amish around here in Illinois. Are you sure it wasn't an Amana Colony?
thephoenix_: because they were illegally detained
(12:27 AM) ellej28: The Amish in PA don't have anything like that.....They drive buggys
(12:27 AM) PSVerHerman: amish blackberry in iowa
(12:27 AM) imalive: it said amish
(12:28 AM) Tama Riki: I believe they believe, that a child cannot be baptised, only an adult
(12:28 AM) stinkbowski: Lieberman put Jewish concerns in front of his constituency...
thephoenix_: Amish repress their women.
(12:28 AM) PSVerHerman: i`m joining the Amish if mc cains wins........
(12:28 AM) ProfGene: Around here the Amish drive horse and buggies and don't use electricity.
thephoenix_: All religions are focused on repressing the women.
(12:28 AM) Tama Riki: Drugs have infiltrated Amish youth
(12:28 AM) PSVerHerman: an amish women.....2 horses.....
(12:28 AM) imalive: some do some don't
(12:28 AM) ellej28: That is the way they are in PA and some are in Ohio
(12:29 AM) PSVerHerman: do they have amish in MA
(12:29 AM) ProfGene: The young Amish are allowed to use power tools and stuff untill they definitely join the group.
(12:29 AM) imalive: i think its the sect
(12:29 AM) ProfGene: We have lots of Amish around here in Illinois.
(12:29 AM) PSVerHerman: amish for OBAMA bumpersticker
thephoenix_: Where I live, Obama bumper stickers abound.
thephoenix_: Only one in 1000 with McCain stickers.
thephoenix_: No Palin stickers.
(12:31 AM) Tama Riki: What a pure existence
(thephoenix_: LMAO
(12:31 AM) flutterbye_7: Thros organic birdseed at the phoenix
(12:31 AM) ellej28: I just fell asleep............I have only had 2 hours sleep......Nite all
(12:31 AM) PSVerHerman: elle good night
(12:31 AM) imalive: nite elle
(12:31 AM) *** icedraft76_1 has left the room ***
(12:31 AM) Just Surfin around: nite ellej take care hun
thephoenix_: hahaha flutter! TYVM! Yummay!
(12:32 AM) stinkbowski: Want to get pissed..Special of Hannity & Colmes just started on Fox news....
thephoenix_: Night elle
(12:32 AM) *** Archnibbler has joined the room ***
thephoenix_: LOL stink!
(12:32 AM) *** hugs2you has joined the room ***
(12:32 AM) flutterbye_7: No katnip the phoenix?
(12:32 AM) *** ellej28 has left the room ***
thephoenix_: This oughtta be priceless.
(12:32 AM) *** Archnibbler has left the room ***
thephoenix_: LOL flutter!!! I didn't know that kittykats fluttered!
(12:32 AM) Just Surfin around: I like it that way
(12:32 AM) *** maole_leaf has joined the room ***
(12:32 AM) *** Tama Riki has left the room ***
thephoenix_: i1i1i1i1i organic ceylon catnip
(12:33 AM) stinkbowski: Can't stand Fucking Hannity....
thephoenix_: brb
(12:33 AM) flutterbye_7: Hi ima and just
(12:33 AM) stinkbowski: Nazi lying Bastard....
(12:33 AM) Just Surfin around: hi flutterbye
(12:35 AM) imalive: 50 now
(12:36 AM) stinkbowski: New Poll puts Obama up 45% to 39%...
(12:36 AM) imalive: it be nice if they get back to it
(12:37 AM) ProfGene: You can't play that in a Democratic room because the Republicans don't think that Democrats ever pledge allegance at least that is what they all say here on Paltalk.
(12:37 AM) stinkbowski: Man, Alan Colmes is such a whipped Pussy....
thephoenix_: Colmes is crying all the way to the bank.
thephoenix_: He's a caricature of a liberal.
thephoenix_: It's a role.
(12:38 AM) ProfGene: The Republicans think Democrats don't recite the Pledge.
(12:38 AM) *** Bfeed has joined the room ***
thephoenix_: no real liberal would do that shit
(12:38 AM) ProfGene: I saw him in a restaurant in Springfield Il years ago.
thephoenix_: Republicans just believe whatever they are told.
thephoenix_: They cannot do their own research or thinking.
thephoenix_: LOL imalive!!!
thephoenix_: No more pledging!!!
thephoenix_: hahahaha
(12:39 AM) puchos_2: hey CHITLNADS I'm bCK
(12:39 AM) stinkbowski: Phoenix...Jesse Jackson is right, Colmes is a potted plant...
thephoenix_: LOL stink
(12:40 AM) stinkbowski: Phoenix..
thephoenix_: actually, imalive, those words mean something
(12:40 AM) *** musicdistor has joined the room ***
(12:40 AM) stinkbowski: Are you watching Fox now ?
thephoenix_: did you ever take the fun little quiz at
(12:40 AM) imalive: yep
thephoenix_: Find out where you stand on the political grid.
(12:41 AM) Just Surfin around: no it is Blocked out of our TV stinkbowski
(12:41 AM) imalive: its went overboard
(12:41 AM) stinkbowski: Just..Good way to see what The dumass Nazis are saying...
(12:41 AM) musicdistor: forget what old leaders said
(12:41 AM) musicdistor: can show
(12:42 AM) puchos_2: LOL THAT'S A GREAT
(12:42 AM) imalive: they have gene
(12:42 AM) *** hugs2you has left the room ***
thephoenix_: I subscribe to the GOP listserv.
(12:42 AM) Just Surfin around: my dogs go crazy stinkbowski
(12:42 AM) musicdistor: keneddy said we will not tolarate secercy
(12:42 AM) puchos_2: I'm have to use that one
(12:42 AM) musicdistor: and secret orders
thephoenix_: I used to get NewsMax every day for two years.
thephoenix_: I finally couldn't take it any more!
(12:42 AM) puchos_2: yup
(12:42 AM) musicdistor: like skull and bones
(12:43 AM) musicdistor: wipe them out
thephoenix_: Naw, I never watch Fox.
thephoenix_: I get clips from people. I know their owners and their policies.
(12:43 AM) imalive: i never watch fixed news
(12:43 AM) *** pepp28 has joined the room ***
(12:43 AM) Just Surfin around: you mean musicdistor like witch hunting?
(12:43 AM) stinkbowski: You can watch these assholes sqirm...Newt is on now...
(12:43 AM) Just Surfin around: hi pepp
thephoenix_: I lived around fox news my whole life: my father.
(12:43 AM) pepp28: oy, surf
(12:43 AM) imalive: gday pepp
(12:43 AM) puchos_2: that BS
(12:44 AM) pepp28: ima, *nods*
(12:44 AM) puchos_2: He is a good man
(12:44 AM) Just Surfin around: yep I am
(12:44 AM) imalive: i even got a hat this time puchos lol
thephoenix_: what the puke propaganda machine is whispering: I don't trust Obama. I don't like Obama. He looks weaselly.
(12:45 AM) imalive: wb
(12:45 AM) musicdistor: lol
thephoenix_: That's what my undecided friends are now mouthing.
(12:45 AM) PSVerHerman: doing that test now phoenix
thephoenix_: cool psv!
(12:45 AM) Just Surfin around: lmao imalive
(12:45 AM) puchos_2: OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\
thephoenix_: I am in the lower left corner, about as far as you can get.
(12:45 AM) musicdistor: ever smell coffe relise ever sience kings
(12:45 AM) musicdistor: quens and gov
(12:45 AM) musicdistor: worlds
(12:45 AM) musicdistor: goen to shitt
(12:45 AM) puchos_2: I'm in the theh crapper
(12:46 AM) *** maole_leaf has left the room ***
(12:46 AM) *** maole_leaf has joined the room ***
thephoenix_: Could you play it again, Sam?
(12:46 AM) puchos_2: yup
(12:46 AM) Just Surfin around: Sam? lol
(12:46 AM) musicdistor: ply what
thephoenix_: hahaha im
(12:46 AM) musicdistor: i got lou dobbs saying usa gone
(12:46 AM) musicdistor: it union
(12:46 AM) musicdistor: soon
(12:47 AM) Just Surfin around: the pledge of allegence
(12:47 AM) pepp28: Ima, that speech today ( my time) was beyond crazy...
(12:47 AM) stinkbowski: Hannity is trying to blame everything on Obama....
thephoenix_: Good, California can secede now!
thephoenix_: Hannity is a loser.
thephoenix_: Cheaters never prosper.
(12:47 AM) musicdistor: lol
(12:47 AM) *** stinkbowski has left the room ***
thephoenix_: US out of California!
(12:48 AM) imalive: i never watch fixed news
(12:48 AM) Bfeed: hussein does supports orginized labor, mccain is for busting unions
thephoenix_: lol @ fixed news
(12:48 AM) imalive: limp balls
(12:48 AM) Just Surfin around: tell us about it.. lol
(12:48 AM) Just Surfin around: we call him Limpballs
(12:48 AM) musicdistor: lol at fixd news
(12:48 AM) musicdistor: one old owner of statio on vid
(12:48 AM) musicdistor: sayin news lies
(12:48 AM) musicdistor: lol
(12:49 AM) musicdistor: studio
thephoenix_: He's a whackjob.
(12:49 AM) puchos_2: I thought it was LIMP Balls
(12:49 AM) ProfGene: Conservatives hate drug atticts except for their homegrown variety.
(12:49 AM) imalive: he gets viagra from columbia
(12:49 AM) puchos_2: LOL
(12:49 AM) imalive: lol
thephoenix_: Every one should totally know that by now.
thephoenix_: Seriously mentally ill.
thephoenix_: We should have compassion for Limpballs, who is insanely rich, and a druggie.
(12:50 AM) puchos_2: DID i Sy somthing thing bad what is thqt block wall simble?
(12:50 AM) pepp28: nice combo. hard and useless.
thephoenix_: But the poor druggies are sent to prison and their lives are often forfeit.
(12:50 AM) musicdistor: and presadent gets sell it
(12:50 AM) musicdistor: lol
thephoenix_: About 80% of rich people aren't worth a shit.
(12:50 AM) musicdistor: bush sr
(12:50 AM) musicdistor: owns cia
(12:50 AM) musicdistor: who they oinvade
(12:50 AM) ProfGene: He never allowed a person with an opposing view get on unless they were real stupid and easy to push around.
(12:50 AM) musicdistor: all cocaine making countrys sayin thed stoop it
(12:50 AM) musicdistor: lol at that
(12:50 AM) Bfeed: hussein does supports project labor agreements; and he supports investing hundreds of millions of dollars towards rebuilding the national infrastruture
(12:50 AM) musicdistor: 25 yrs laty
(12:51 AM) musicdistor: still coke
(12:51 AM) musicdistor: called takeover
(12:51 AM) musicdistor: lol
(12:51 AM) imalive: lol
(12:51 AM) imalive: yep
(12:51 AM) Just Surfin around: nope
(12:51 AM) musicdistor: like afagan has what
(12:51 AM) musicdistor: oxycotton companys need
(12:51 AM) Just Surfin around: you hit a
(12:51 AM) musicdistor: opium
(12:51 AM) puchos_2: ok
thephoenix_: yeah puchos
thephoenix_: happens if you are too fast on the trigger
thephoenix_: lol
(12:54 AM) pepp28: heheh
thephoenix_: I have something against you, Bfeed.
(12:54 AM) pepp28: all those very old women.
(12:54 AM) pepp28: yes
thephoenix_: You must be white.
(12:54 AM) pepp28: I do see some of them around.
thephoenix_: I am white too.
(12:54 AM) pepp28: still crazed
(12:54 AM) pepp28: they slowed down somewhat
thephoenix_: But I know a smart person when I see one, regardless of the color of her skin.
(12:54 AM) imalive: no
(12:54 AM) puchos_2: no
(12:54 AM) musicdistor: white live amoung hartians
(12:54 AM) musicdistor: jamicians
thephoenix_: I read about it, Prof.
(12:54 AM) musicdistor: asians
(12:54 AM) musicdistor: lol
(12:55 AM) musicdistor: hatians
thephoenix_: I will find some and bring em to ya!
(12:55 AM) imalive: i don't look at idiots
(12:55 AM) Just Surfin around: I am 3/4 cherokee indian
(12:55 AM) musicdistor: who runs toronto
(12:55 AM) musicdistor: not whate man
(12:55 AM) musicdistor: white
thephoenix_: Part Cherokee, part Sioux
(12:56 AM) puchos_2: surf I'm Black Foot white man who loves a fire waer LOL
thephoenix_: Part Greek, Polish, English, French, Irish, German
(12:56 AM) puchos_2: water
(12:56 AM) *** ClayBirds7 has joined the room ***
thephoenix_: some other stuff too
(12:56 AM) musicdistor: soux named after what visited
(12:56 AM) musicdistor: earth
(12:56 AM) Just Surfin around: lmao unchos
(12:56 AM) musicdistor: the snakes
(12:56 AM) musicdistor: lol
(12:56 AM) imalive: he sounded great to me today
thephoenix_: I look Greek, and have mostly German and Irish blood
(12:56 AM) puchos_2: great
thephoenix_: people often think that I am Jewish
(12:56 AM) musicdistor: or is souix serphant
(12:57 AM) musicdistor: same fin thing
thephoenix_: so I give up about the ethnic thing!
(12:57 AM) imalive: great
(12:57 AM) Bfeed: the wasicu mccain speaks with a forked tongue
(12:57 AM) PSVerHerman: i`ll will be voting.....for OBAMA too.......

thephoenix_: I got bullied because I was a girl.
thephoenix_: I never did anything to anybody.
thephoenix_: I always just wanted to play nice.
(12:59 AM) musicdistor: not that they green
thephoenix_: People hated that!
(12:59 AM) musicdistor: just symbolism
(12:59 AM) *** Tuey1960 has joined the room ***
(12:59 AM) Just Surfin around: I took care of that the phoenix ... I stood up for myself
thephoenix_: I wrote plays for my friends when I was 5.
thephoenix_: My parents made me stop.
thephoenix_: I stood up too.
thephoenix_: They still fucked with me.
thephoenix_: I was unable to beat them up.
(1:00 AM) *** Tuey1960 has left the room ***
(1:00 AM) PSVerHerman: just past the test phoenix
thephoenix_: They were bigger than me.
(1:00 AM) imalive: we don't have to change system we have to the root of the problem
(1:00 AM) musicdistor: what test
(1:00 AM) ClayBirds7: Indeed
(1:00 AM) musicdistor: all reglions
(1:00 AM) musicdistor: have been probven
thephoenix_: yup, im
(1:00 AM) PSVerHerman: wich color did you have phoenix
(1:00 AM) Just Surfin around: you help them
(1:00 AM) musicdistor: fake by over 5 people
(1:00 AM) imalive: get
(1:00 AM) *** musicdistor has left the room ***
thephoenix_: I have typical Irish skin.
(1:01 AM) PSVerHerman: reglion is the reason for most wars last 2000 years
thephoenix_: Pale and kissed by freckles.
(1:01 AM) *** OrganicOrganism has left the room ***
(1:01 AM) PSVerHerman: phoenix did you got green or red
(1:01 AM) ClayBirds7: Indeed!!!!
thephoenix_: PSV, have you red God is Not Great?
(1:02 AM) Just Surfin around: I speak a different language
(1:02 AM) Just Surfin around: but it wasn't taught in school
(1:02 AM) PSVerHerman: i was green left
(1:02 AM) puchos_2: YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO now your talking
thephoenix_: Oh. I didn't know that Political Compass has colors now.
(1:03 AM) Bfeed: I supported Hillary, & it angered me, when she give up, which was her preogative, but when she asked us to support hussein the muslim, that was the last straw
(1:03 AM) ProfGene: Bush almost destroyed the system.
thephoenix_: I am a social libertarian. Probably green left describes me to some degree.
(1:03 AM) PSVerHerman: i`m green also
thephoenix_: as opposed to a capitalist libertarian
(1:04 AM) *** Bizza N Bebsi has joined the room ***
(1:04 AM) PSVerHerman: phoenix we have the same views....
(1:04 AM) *** Bizza N Bebsi has left the room ***
(1:04 AM) ProfGene: There are many people on Paltalk who applaud what we did to the Japanese Americans.
thephoenix_: cool, psv!
(1:04 AM) PSVerHerman: phoenix we could marry LOL
(1:04 AM) PSVerHerman: hahaha
thephoenix_: Prof, that's bs.
(1:04 AM) ClayBirds7: Indeed
thephoenix_: lol psv.
thephoenix_: that's silly
(1:05 AM) ProfGene: A dollar will never be a dollar again.
(1:05 AM) ClayBirds7: yes
thephoenix_: for starters, we live about 6,000 miles apart
(1:05 AM) Alert: ====SECURITY BULLETIN!=======
Clicking on a link to any site that offers
-To give you a blue nickname for free,
-To give you the ability to be invisible or,
-To help you manipulate the Paltalk software,
violates Paltalk’s Terms of Service AND/OR is a hacking site whose intention is to steal your nickname, password and/or credit card information.
Remember, if you want Paltalk software or you want to LOG-IN to Paltalk, be safe and go to
(1:05 AM) PSVerHerman: washington DC summer 2016: president obama turned to the euro...
thephoenix_: lmao, psv!
(1:06 AM) Just Surfin around: rotflmao PSV
(1:06 AM) *** pepp28 has left the room ***
(1:06 AM) Just Surfin around: me too
thephoenix_: how else could one live, puchos?
(1:06 AM) imalive: lol i been to one of those parties
(1:07 AM) PSVerHerman: by the the sound of that....President OBAMA
thephoenix_: about 30 years ago, I started avoiding people who lacked a sense of humor
(1:07 AM) puchos_2: lol\
thephoenix_: Nice, PSV.
(1:07 AM) ProfGene: The Greeks in Boston had the band but I don't know if they had the dancers.
(1:07 AM) imalive: we have a greek restaurant party
thephoenix_: I have been laughing a great deal this week.
(1:07 AM) imalive: went i mean
(1:07 AM) puchos_2: yes
thephoenix_: What else could I do?
(1:07 AM) ProfGene: oopah oopah
(1:07 AM) PSVerHerman: phoenix are you 6000 miles away from me.....
thephoenix_: I am nobody, and I predicted this 6 years ago.
thephoenix_: and I am broke
(1:08 AM) Bfeed: however hussein does have the right policies & a strong friend of labor
(1:08 AM) *** suo-me has joined the room ***
(1:08 AM) imalive: lol
thephoenix_: no money in the stock market, for once, when the market crashed!
(1:08 AM) PSVerHerman: talking about the last speech of bush on the radio
thephoenix_: So I get to laugh like HELL this time!
(1:08 AM) *** suo-me has left the room ***
thephoenix_: They did not "service my account" this time!
(1:09 AM) puchos_2: thats is great
thephoenix_: I lost most of my money in stock market crashes
(1:09 AM) puchos_2: you betya
thephoenix_: I lost the rest getting an education
thephoenix_: Now I am on my way to having it figured out
(1:09 AM) PSVerHerman: i lost all my money on my ex wife
(1:10 AM) Just Surfin around: that wasn't Greek ProfGene
thephoenix_: that's how you find out that money doesn't mean a thing, eh, psv?
(1:10 AM) PSVerHerman: true phoenix
(1:10 AM) Bfeed: thats why they call them housekeepers, in a divorce they keep the house
thephoenix_: lol Bfeed
(1:11 AM) imalive: yep
(1:11 AM) PSVerHerman: hehehe
(1:11 AM) Just Surfin around: lmao
(1:11 AM) puchos_2: ll
(1:12 AM) imalive: i was invited to a greek party
(1:12 AM) Just Surfin around: puchos_2 we rotate every other night, tonight it is this room.. tomorrow night it will be Democrats Yes We Can
(1:13 AM) Just Surfin around: we crashed the party lmao
(1:13 AM) puchos_2: thnaks
(1:13 AM) Just Surfin around: yw puchos_2
(1:13 AM) PSVerHerman: phoenix do you like SF
(1:15 AM) imalive: i don't go to bars anymore
(1:15 AM) Just Surfin around: lmao ProfGene
(1:16 AM) *** PSVerHerman has joined the room ***
(1:16 AM) PSVerHerman: back
(1:16 AM) Just Surfin around: wb PSV
(1:16 AM) PSVerHerman: lost my connection
(1:17 AM) ProfGene: bomb bomb bomb Iran
(1:17 AM) Just Surfin around: we made up the dance
(1:17 AM) PSVerHerman: phoenix do you like SF
(1:18 AM) Just Surfin around: I don't Drink
(1:18 AM) Just Surfin around: I hate the smell
(1:18 AM) PSVerHerman: i never went to bars.........where are all the nice women LOL
(1:18 AM) Bfeed: can't afford the wars we have now, bombing iran is out of the question
(1:19 AM) puchos_2: I went to drink and get a tad of HOOCH.... LOL Women
(1:19 AM) ProfGene: You didn't here McCain singing that song?
(1:19 AM) ProfGene: hear
(1:19 AM) puchos_2: OH NO
thephoenix_: The nice women are staying home and chatting in Paltalk.
thephoenix_: about 80% of men aren't worth a shit
(1:19 AM) PSVerHerman: imalive in a gay bar.......did they had a pic of president reagan on the wall
thephoenix_: Gays can be fascists too.
thephoenix_: I don't know who's dumber... gay republicans or Black republicans.
(1:20 AM) PSVerHerman: what do you like in a men phoenix
(1:20 AM) Just Surfin around: I worked with them at work...
thephoenix_: PSV, I like brains, wit, compassion, and an understanding of personal suffering
(1:20 AM) ProfGene: Gay Republicans? You mean the foot tapping types?
thephoenix_: along with a sensual and imaginative nature
thephoenix_: LOL Prof.
(1:21 AM) Just Surfin around: yes we have seen it
(1:21 AM) Just Surfin around: we have been to NJ
(1:21 AM) imalive: lol
(1:21 AM) PSVerHerman: phoenix did you read my profile LOL
thephoenix_: take a look at
(1:21 AM) Just Surfin around: rotflmao
(1:22 AM) Just Surfin around: Pole Dancing
(1:22 AM) Just Surfin around: lol
thephoenix_: information sponges make me hot
(1:22 AM) PSVerHerman: hehe
(1:22 AM) puchos_2: no pt pleabt beach nj
(1:22 AM) puchos_2: beachhouse
(1:23 AM) ProfGene: An Italian restaurant in North Beach is where I had my first order of Scampi and I have never tasted better since.
thephoenix_: the more curious you are, the more I will like you
thephoenix_: scampi and calimari rok!
(1:23 AM) PSVerHerman: i`m the curious type
(1:24 AM) Just Surfin around: omg
(1:24 AM) imalive: lol
(1:24 AM) Just Surfin around: I would have too
thephoenix_: North Beach has great food.
thephoenix_: There are hundreds of wonderful restaurants in San Francisco.
(1:24 AM) Just Surfin around: Men in Black
(1:24 AM) Just Surfin around: lol
(1:24 AM) puchos_2: I know those places welll just don't eat the hamburgerLOL
thephoenix_: Many of them are quite reasonable.
(1:25 AM) PSVerHerman: phoenix we could go to mac donalds for our first date LOL
(1:25 AM) Just Surfin around: lmao PSV
thephoenix_: 10-20 for a very nice meal well-prepared with the freshest ingredients
(1:25 AM) PSVerHerman: they have a great mac moose
thephoenix_: and filling
thephoenix_: LMAO, PSV!
(1:26 AM) Just Surfin around: ima scared the crap out of me
thephoenix_: I was pushed to the limit last night. Ate my first McDonald's in three years.
thephoenix_: Two cheeseburgers and a small coke.
(1:26 AM) PSVerHerman: hehe
thephoenix_: Very long days for political geeks these days!
thephoenix_: I spend most of my day watching MSNBC, reading, and writing.
(1:27 AM) ProfGene: I had a run in with the Grim Reapers at the Bar in Peoria IL.
(1:27 AM) Just Surfin around: yes
thephoenix_: I also have a job and a house to take care of.
(1:27 AM) ProfGene: the Barn
(1:28 AM) imalive: i knew some outlaws
(1:28 AM) Bfeed: uses to go to a restaurant on the corner of scott & lumbard st. called 'scotts' have gr8 seafood, gotta go early, because they're crowded at the dinner hours
(1:28 AM) imalive: lol
thephoenix_: Scott's is the best.
thephoenix_: It's been in business for 80 years or so.
(1:28 AM) PSVerHerman: is that in san diego phoenix
thephoenix_: Also in Oakland at Jack London Square
(1:29 AM) imalive: lol
thephoenix_: I don't know, PSV.
(1:29 AM) Just Surfin around: I know how you felt
thephoenix_: rarely in SF
thephoenix_: i mean SD
(1:29 AM) *** Bobby McGee has joined the room ***
(1:29 AM) Just Surfin around: hi Bobby
(1:29 AM) imalive: hey bobby
(1:29 AM) Just Surfin around: glad to see you
thephoenix_: hey bobby, you monsta
(1:30 AM) Bobby McGee: greetings guys
thephoenix_: are you behaving?
(1:30 AM) PSVerHerman: hahahahaha
(1:30 AM) Just Surfin around: lmao
(1:30 AM) Bobby McGee: Hwy Phoenix sweetheart
(1:30 AM) puchos_2: lol
(1:30 AM) Just Surfin around: rotflmao
thephoenix_: or hanging out with the beach bunnies again?
(1:30 AM) puchos_2: ben there\
(1:30 AM) PSVerHerman: ow dancefloor...

thephoenix_: that was my sister's job
(1:31 AM) Bobby McGee: halaween stories ?
(1:31 AM) PSVerHerman: hehehe
(1:31 AM) Just Surfin around: nope real stories Bobby
(1:31 AM) imalive: oh no lol
thephoenix_: lmao, Prof
(1:32 AM) PSVerHerman: i never had problems with gay guys
thephoenix_: Neither have I, PSV!
thephoenix_: that's ANOTHER thing we have in common
thephoenix_: I never have trouble with gay people.
(1:32 AM) Bobby McGee: my plan for hallaween horror is to tell the kids in the nighborhood how much indebet the rpublicans put on them and how many life times they have to work to pay it off
(1:32 AM) PSVerHerman: yep LOL
(1:32 AM) ProfGene: OF course you don't have any trouble with any group until you start looking for trouble as these guys did.
thephoenix_: The gay agenda is to have lovely luncheons and to shop til they drop.
(1:33 AM) Bfeed: if you are respectful, the gays will never bother you
(1:33 AM) imalive: lol
(1:33 AM) puchos_2: I love your laugh!!!
thephoenix_: I went to grad school in San Francisco.
thephoenix_: 1/3 of my classmates were gay
(1:33 AM) PSVerHerman: going out with gay men is more save phoenix....from a women piont of view
(1:33 AM) imalive: it never bothered me lol
thephoenix_: they aren't any different than me
thephoenix_: absolutely!
(1:33 AM) Bfeed: the gays always had good smoke
(1:34 AM) *** Bobby McGee has left the room ***
thephoenix_: except for I am heterosexual, against my will
thephoenix_: I tried to be homosexual and it did not work.
(1:34 AM) imalive: they were great
(1:34 AM) PSVerHerman: hehehe
(1:34 AM) PSVerHerman: phoenix LOL
thephoenix_: I did not wake up one morning and decide to be straight
thephoenix_: I am stuck with it.
(1:35 AM) PSVerHerman: but you tried it with a women then phoenix?
thephoenix_: In my observation, most gay men are genetically gay, while it's harder to tell with women.
(1:35 AM) imalive: i would have liked to have got paid for it lol
(1:35 AM) PSVerHerman: hahahaa
thephoenix_: Some women become gay because about 80% of men just aren't worth a shit.
(1:36 AM) ProfGene: I once told my friends I was tri-sexual. Tri-sexual what's that. As hard as I try I can't seem to get any.
(1:36 AM) PSVerHerman: i`m 100% straight.......
thephoenix_: that was my reason!
(1:37 AM) Bfeed: straight as ary arrow, but got along with the gays
(1:37 AM) imalive: gays are no different
thephoenix_: everyone can get along with gays
thephoenix_: they are just like straight people
thephoenix_: they have the same needs and desires
(1:37 AM) Just Surfin around: oh no thephoenix
thephoenix_: well, true, surf.
(1:37 AM) imalive: i agree
thephoenix_: Gays are generally smarter than straights.
thephoenix_: that's one difference
(1:38 AM) PSVerHerman: thank you phoenix LOL
(1:38 AM) ProfGene: It isn't a quesion of getting along. The Conservatives think that Gays are a threat to their way of life which is not true but they love to harp on it.
(1:38 AM) PSVerHerman: hehehe
(1:38 AM) imalive: cheney too
(1:38 AM) ProfGene: No its Cheney has a daughter
thephoenix_: My right wing relatives talk about the Gay Agenda alla time.
thephoenix_: I just laugh
(1:38 AM) puchos_2: lol
thephoenix_: I tell them what the gay agenda really is.
thephoenix_: Luncheon and shopping, then dressing up in costume for the evening
(1:39 AM) puchos_2: no way
thephoenix_: My father disowned me this week.
(1:39 AM) puchos_2: ther is a scumm bag sory
thephoenix_: Because my political opinions appeared on google.
(1:40 AM) puchos_2: sory for the spelling I really did go to school just had a bad ice cube
thephoenix_: It's just like the middle ages.
(1:40 AM) puchos_2: LOL
(1:40 AM) puchos_2: you will make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
thephoenix_: I reminded him about our conversation four years ago about regulating financial institutions and the stock market.
(1:40 AM) *** Vote Rebublican_in Nov has joined the room ***
thephoenix_: He said that regulation was too expensive.
(1:41 AM) puchos_2: thye know how to make a house lok gre3at
(1:41 AM) Vote Rebublican_in Nov: u sound like a child
thephoenix_: I wonder how expensive he thinks that regulation is now.
(1:41 AM) Vote Rebublican_in Nov: hahahahahaha
(1:41 AM) Vote Rebublican_in Nov: you sound drunk
(1:41 AM) Vote Rebublican_in Nov: byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee silly man
(1:41 AM) *** Vote Rebublican_in Nov has left the room ***
thephoenix_: Oops, some white trash snuck in!
thephoenix_: He took HIMSELF out.
thephoenix_: Nice job!
(1:42 AM) Just Surfin around: I can drop down the admin list and when they left I banded him
(1:42 AM) puchos_2: youbet ya
(1:42 AM) imalive: i never get no mail from republicans
(1:43 AM) imalive: lol
(1:43 AM) imalive: email
(1:43 AM) imalive: mean
(1:43 AM) Just Surfin around: imalive got a letter from Palin with her pic on it.. lmao
(1:43 AM) PSVerHerman: i wich i had that letter
(1:44 AM) Bfeed: whimpy women are impressed with any woman, that can punch out a moose & they'll give her their vote irregardless of her politics
(1:44 AM) Just Surfin around: I am saving it .... PSV
(1:44 AM) PSVerHerman: hehe
(1:44 AM) imalive: i wanted to piss on it and return to sender lol
(1:44 AM) PSVerHerman: hehe
(1:44 AM) Just Surfin around: I called the DNC and told them..
(1:45 AM) imalive: its a boogie man issue
(1:45 AM) Just Surfin around: family values come in to play with how you raise your children
(1:46 AM) Just Surfin around: no repukes are allowed
(1:47 AM) PSVerHerman: you have not heard the ned phone calls puchos
(1:47 AM) Just Surfin around: lmao PSV
(1:47 AM) imalive: tommorow night we open our room it will be Democrats Yes We Can
(1:47 AM) puchos_2: yup
(1:47 AM) puchos_2: thanks
(1:48 AM) imalive: its a democrat room
(1:48 AM) ProfGene: I know i am banned from one of the Democratic rooms but since I don't know them all I don't know the exact name of it but when I try to get in one of the Democratic rooms I am not allowed to enter.
(1:49 AM) Just Surfin around: lmao
(1:49 AM) ProfGene: all I know is I was talking against a 9/11 conspiracy theory and I got red dotted then next time I couldn't enter
(1:49 AM) PSVerHerman: 'puchos where you from?
(1:50 AM) puchos_2: fl
(1:50 AM) PSVerHerman: ok
(1:50 AM) Bfeed: my sense of the room is that we all agree that we desperately need someone to overcome the failed policies of the bush administration here at home and overseas. I just don't think that hussein is that man
(1:51 AM) Just Surfin around: no
(1:52 AM) ProfGene: Is that the name of the room?
(1:52 AM) Bfeed: I got reddoted for just calling hussein by his name hussein
(1:53 AM) puchos_2: got ya
(1:54 AM) ProfGene: Unless they make the format a public forum
thephoenix_: Bfeed, please tell me about our alternatives.
(1:54 AM) puchos_2: I'm talkig about out and out abuse from soem of these folks
(1:54 AM) puchos_2: some
(1:54 AM) ProfGene: terms of service
(1:54 AM) puchos_2: understood
(1:54 AM) Bfeed: I don't have the answers phoenix sorry
thephoenix_: McCain, who doesn't know what he thinks from one week to the next?
(1:55 AM) ProfGene: There are some rooms where they say open debate.
thephoenix_: He's not a maverick, he's a psycho!
thephoenix_: Torture is bad, torture is good.]
(1:56 AM) Bfeed: I respect mccain as a fellow veteran, but I wouldn't vote for him or any other republican
thephoenix_: Economy is sound, economy is in crisis.
(1:56 AM) Just Surfin around: right thephoenix
(1:56 AM) ProfGene: During WWII it was the Japanese and the Germans who were the ones who used torture, now I hear Americans saying torture is a good thing.
thephoenix_: I mean, that's kinda scary!
thephoenix_: He doesn't seem to be in good touch with reality.
(1:57 AM) imalive: i usually try to tell them to be ccivil
thephoenix_: Sarah Palin has enough experience to be President?
(1:57 AM) Bfeed: the enemies are the islamic muslim cult terrorists & the republican party
thephoenix_: She's ignorant and proud of it!
(1:57 AM) imalive: lol
(1:58 AM) puchos_2: please don't vomit I have he ulcers
thephoenix_: My enemies are the fascists and right wingers of all religions.
(1:58 AM) puchos_2: no more
(1:58 AM) ProfGene: Palin might have enough experience to be president of the Free the Bluebird Society.
(1:58 AM) puchos_2: lol
thephoenix_: I could have a decent life if it weren't for Xtian, Hindu, Jewish, and Islamic right wingers.
(1:58 AM) imalive: lol
(1:59 AM) ProfGene: Its the Joosh.
(1:59 AM) imalive: how to eat moose stew
thephoenix_: they are all alike
(1:59 AM) Bfeed: think I'll mosey on over the the 2way street room, so C ya's all later...laters
thephoenix_: they have no learning curve
(1:59 AM) *** Bfeed has left the room ***
(2:00 AM) PSVerHerman: i saw palin with world leaders this week
thephoenix_: I haff zeen Russia too, fraulein!
(2:00 AM) imalive: we do have problems with independants
thephoenix_: Ve have somezing in common, no?
(2:00 AM) ProfGene: Another thing I hear constantly from Conservatives is well if he doesn win he will be assassinated.
(2:01 AM) PSVerHerman: you schould have called the RNC ....
(2:01 AM) imalive: they were known as freepers
thephoenix_: Conservatives also say that they don't trust Obama, they don't know him (after an 18 month long presidential campaign) and that he looks weaselly
(2:01 AM) imalive: that was the the 2000 election
(2:02 AM) imalive: the freepers
(2:02 AM) PSVerHerman: hehehe
thephoenix_: It's because most of them can't outright say that they are racists who would never vote for a person with brown skin, no matter HOW smart she was
(2:03 AM) ProfGene: The like to say he is not one of us. Well is McCain one of them with his 42 houses and cars to match or Palin with her wolf hides hanging on the wall. The only one who is "one of us," is Biden.
(2:03 AM) PSVerHerman: make mac moose burger...watching over the fence ....looking at russia.....fucking with first dude todd
thephoenix_: todd is prolly limp
thephoenix_: he spends all night out riding a snowmobile
thephoenix_: must not be too cozy at home
(2:03 AM) imalive: i have np with them
(2:03 AM) PSVerHerman: todd went down to russia.....
thephoenix_: Obama AND Biden are both one of us.
thephoenix_: No one born to a welfare mother and a Black man makes it to Harvard.
thephoenix_: The odds are about a billion to one
thephoenix_: no matter how smart she is
thephoenix_: I was born lower working class and spent a good deal of my childhood in poverty.
(2:05 AM) imalive: lol
(2:05 AM) PSVerHerman: i need some ned
thephoenix_: No one like me makes it to a top-tier law school
(2:05 AM) imalive: i am too
thephoenix_: you haven't heard repukes?
(2:06 AM) puchos_2: ok
thephoenix_: You must be a dreaded NOOB.
thephoenix_: Welcome, NOOB!!!!
thephoenix_: NED???
thephoenix_: I want Ned too.
thephoenix_: LOL
(2:07 AM) ProfGene: One of us means a Racist, Homophobic, Anti-Semetic, bring prayers back into the schools, everyone deserves an arsenal in their closet, teach Creationism, eat only Cheeseburgers hardhat, redneck.
thephoenix_: is that Just in the background laughing her arse off?
thephoenix_: loool just
(2:07 AM) PSVerHerman: phoenix a other thing we have in comen
(2:07 AM) imalive: lol
(2:07 AM) Just Surfin around: rotflmao
(2:07 AM) Just Surfin around: good one
(2:08 AM) ProfGene: sounds like shove you eyeball up your butt.
(2:09 AM) imalive: lol
(2:09 AM) ProfGene: There is nothing Cool about Koolaid.
(2:11 AM) puchos_2: Prof, but when you get laid it is KOOL LOL

(2:11 AM) puchos_2: sorry i had to do it
(2:11 AM) imalive: karl rove tatics
(2:12 AM) puchos_2: we are there
(2:12 AM) imalive: we really don't know yet
(2:12 AM) imalive: we are there
(2:13 AM) puchos_2: bs
(2:13 AM) puchos_2: yup
(2:13 AM) puchos_2: what is it with people?
(2:14 AM) puchos_2: I stilll don't get it
(2:14 AM) imalive: obama is going back after them
thephoenix_: Obama's gloves are off.
thephoenix_: He has stopped capitulating to the right.
thephoenix_: I thought that it would never happen.
(2:15 AM) imalive: i do
thephoenix_: christ
thephoenix_: lol
(2:15 AM) imalive: yep
(2:18 AM) puchos_2: bulls eye
(2:19 AM) puchos_2: be rigth back... another call
(2:19 AM) PSVerHerman: ned is calling
(2:19 AM) *** ladyamathia007 has joined the room ***
(2:20 AM) *** ladyamathia007 has left the room ***
(2:20 AM) Just Surfin around: right
(2:20 AM) puchos_2: back
(2:20 AM) imalive: right
(2:21 AM) Just Surfin around: wb puchos
(2:21 AM) puchos_2: thanks
(2:21 AM) imalive: it was never a threat
(2:21 AM) Just Surfin around: yw
(2:21 AM) imalive: hes got a lot of threats but never claims himself
thephoenix_: Not any more.
thephoenix_: McCain's party is ovah.
(2:23 AM) imalive: right gene
(2:24 AM) PSVerHerman: the ball went out of the park
(2:24 AM) Just Surfin around: we have to get some sleep busy day today...... closing at 4:30 CST
(2:25 AM) Just Surfin around: nothing
(2:25 AM) imalive: i do too puchos
(2:25 AM) imalive: i am a nam vet
(2:25 AM) imalive: big red 1
thephoenix_: me too
thephoenix_: then I was a Mormon in high school
(2:27 AM) Just Surfin around: lmao
thephoenix_: after that I became an agnostic because I became a scientist
(2:27 AM) imalive: you don't want to see the bodies before they go into bags puchos
(2:27 AM) Just Surfin around: funny isn't it puchos
thephoenix_: prove it!
(2:27 AM) PSVerHerman: the wrong turn was the day bush was elected
thephoenix_: Bush was never elected.
thephoenix_: He was installed in a bloodless coup.
(2:28 AM) Just Surfin around: right the phoenix
(2:28 AM) PSVerHerman: true
thephoenix_: bloodless at the time, anyway
thephoenix_: since then, over a million people have died!
thephoenix_: no, never no nooz!
(2:29 AM) *** OzyGold has joined the room ***
thephoenix_: just the enquirer
thephoenix_: LOL Prof
(2:29 AM) imalive: hi ozy
thephoenix_: murkans still think that we have an effective antitrust act.
(2:29 AM) OzyGold: hi
thephoenix_: hey oz
thephoenix_: that's really dumb
(2:29 AM) puchos_2: you & me and many
(2:30 AM) OzyGold: I will releace 1 trollon dollars once the vatcan pays me 50 billon dollars ~~~~~
thephoenix_: this is WHY all these mergers are bad
(2:30 AM) OzyGold: so if usa wants out of the shit
thephoenix_: because just a few companies can bring the U$ economy to its knees
(2:30 AM) OzyGold: they best get the vatcan pay me for destorying my family
thephoenix_: the antitrust act is used on unions far more often than corporations
(2:31 AM) PSVerHerman: gene is on a roll
thephoenix_: just like the 14th amendment is used 99/1 for corporations
(2:32 AM) *** hotbod has joined the room ***